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depth charge AKA J. Saul Kane


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Right, basically, this is the break I'm trying to ID.

breakidjuly15.wav

 

now It is heard in, "2 Bad Mice" by 2 bad mice (1991)

skip to 1:10

 

It is also the 1st break on the Kniteforce - Shackle me now "50 breakbeats" (1993)

 

and just tonight I discovered this!

 

Let me warn you, this is 2 tracks merged together, first is the self titled 'depth charge vs silver dub [feat mc akaline] 2nd is 'silver dub' (1991)

you can hear the break in there but it's not clean anywhere.

This leaves us with, J. Saul Kane got it from some where else. OR. J. Saul Kane has written shit loads of music (and he really has check this out http://www.discogs.com/artist/J.+Saul+Kane ) and programmed the break in another tune of his.

 

Whatever it is, i aint gonna ask luna c for help again, I allready feel like i've cheated enough times!

 

also, just to make this more confusing, the break sounds like a diluted version of the Shamen - Hyperreal selector (1991) produced by some one of the name of Jack Dangers. This shamen break was then clearly sampled for Prodigy - Out of space.

 

Discuss...

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  • 2 weeks later...

right, it's been up on discogs for a while now, and to be fair, if no one on there is gonna get it, i might as well give up my self!

 

I thought I was so close when I was checking out some early Blade stuff but nope. I still have my bets on this being UK and not US.

So I'm gonna have to ask luna-c again.

 

One thing that I noticed and should of mentioned was, the 2 Bad Mice one, has 2 kick drums before the main snare, and the one on Silver fox & Shakles me not 50 breakbeats thingy only has 1. So, I dont know what the technical thing is here, Bar? the break must be clean for 2 bars to have both versions.

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arrgh! Im really getting annoyed at this one, is there anything left I haven't looked at!!!!!?!?!?!?!?! !

 

Thought I was close with this one, and I think you're right about the swing thing of the early 90s, especially when it's like a hiphop/newjackswing cross over.

 

my god I thought I was close! but not busy enough, you know what I mean by busy? newjack beats seem to have a more promiment "puuhp" like snare and more tissy tissy fillings.

 

luna-c stil aint contacted me back so I think it's time to try 2 x's time harder! :(

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Omg what a tune! NB. Entouch - II Hype

 

Think there was another version of this that Westwood used to play, with the same "oh sooky sooky" sample (or was that another tune?)

 

That Terminator X tune is a big one also, with the Biz Markie - Make The Music With Your Mouth beat on one channel and (don't know the other beat actually), oh and Run DMC - Sucker MC's a bit later on... listen carefully you'll hear the beats are a bit out of sync across the track, clearly Terminator X is cutting the breaks live.

 

Keep looking (and bringing the old tunes back to life!)

Edited by Ornette
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ok this is the MOST promising one i've found so far but it's very short

http://www.heroesofukhiphop.com/Samples/MCDuke-ThinkSamp.mp3

 

pick4 (fEat mc duke), hardly any info at all apart from the clip on that site, the discogs of course. can't seem to get a decent mp3 anywhere :(

 

edit: the 2 kicks at the start, well that's the 2badmice - 2badmice one covered. so before you go all, 'there's only 1 kick at the start' well.... yeah, you get the jist.

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ok I should probably be concentrating on getting a girlfriend or, /life.

 

but I've just tried to re-create the break (using Renoise) after serveer scruntiny!

 

found out it was a Kool/Gang chocolate buttermilk underneath all this other shit

here's how I did. see if you think I am right with the buttermilk break

break_remake.mp3

quite long but if you listen you can hear what I did

 

1, buttermilk break

2, EQ'd 909kick

3, tamb' hits

4, thicker snare (taken from break1 & pithced down)

5, that classic think (about it) tamb' break

6, Bus compression & EQs

 

now when I checked out that pick4/mcduke track (sadly, still just that short clip) I did the stereo-difference trick (the hardware way by recording it with half the stereo jack out the socket) and I could hear an amen! so I don't think it's that.

 

So really, I haven't really got any where apart from finding out it's beefed up buttermilk break.

please keep looking for me though! This is the toughest of them all.

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You're insane!

 

I don't think thats Chocolate Buttermilk in there. Listening again, it sounds more like the end breaks of Funky Drummer being used (with all the drum rolls etc), overlayed with some individual drum hits & sounds. Not sure why you would want to recreate it. I still thinking its a swingbeat record personally.

 

You done well to identify it as the root break for the Shamen track. But I'm sure the true source for it will turn up eventually.

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ok,

So i got an email back from Luna, he basically not sure if the name he gave the break means anything to its ID. and when it comes to hardware sampler, I see where he's coming from, being quick with the names because you don't want to waste time.

 

Anyway, it was called 'tone', but that got me thinkin, ahright, "test tone", no help at all, but I happen to have an akai sampler and at no point is there the word tone, so that's a close save.

 

but he said it could be because he had a Tone Loc record, but he can't remember the titles, but clearly said it's not from an Album because he only got EPs.

 

I did ask about the whole newjackswing/swingbeat thing, he said he bought a couple but wasn't aware of the name newjackswing, so maybe a newjackswing/hiphop cross over ?

 

last night, I checked out some Tone Loc, but nothing has come up with the same beat. I can't listen to all his releases because there not all up on youtube, (or other places heehe), I wouldn't mind knowing what this one sounds like:

http://www.discogs.com/Tone-Loc-All-Through-The-Night/master/76190

A3: All Through The Night (Big Beats)

 

Possibity! Possibity!

But as he said it might not even by any Tone Loc tune,

 

I've asked on a couple of forums, message boards and that. Including New jack swing forver forum, sadly no one knows.

Tearin' my hair out on this one, Been checking out other artists on the same lables like Def Jef, young MC, Lakim Shabazz etc, but with all the tunes and versions/edits/dubs/remixes not on youtube, there's little I can do.

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I'd like to also say that, I reckon whatever this is, it might not be from 1991. More like 1990. If you think about release dates, 3 different UK producers brought a record out in 1991 with the same beat, seeing how long it takes to get vinyl pressed up and into the shops, I dont think 1991 for a beat to come out is early enough for a release of 3 tunes sampling the same beat!! does that make sense?

So forget 1991. It HAS to be 1990 or maybe even 1989.

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Shall I tell you why this one is annoying though? because 4 People from the UK all used the same break in the year 1991:-

 

Rob Playford (1 half of 2badmice, might be the other guy though)

Jack Dangers (from meatbeatmanifesto, shamen remixer)

J. Saul Kane (from depth charge)

Chris Luna-C (kniteforce guy)

 

ALL 1991. this is so crazy, why do i get the feeling it's more obvious than I think.

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